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Even today, Bitcoin is still a “social experiment,” Arthur Hayes says
Bitcoin has been around for a while, but its role in financial markets continues to change. From its origins as a fiercely anti-establishment currency, the cryptocurrency has evolved into a store of value that rivals many traditional risk assets. Still, there has persisted a line of thinking that the cryptocurrency’s role today is a consequence of a failure to improve monetary policy.
“[Bitcoin] created trillions of dollars of wealth literally out of thin air,” Arthur Hayes, CIO of Maelstrom and co-founder of BitMEX, said on StrataMedia’s Talking Tokens podcast recently. “And it's purely based on the fact that the government didn't do what they were supposed to do, which is safeguard the value of currency.”
Hayes’ framing places bitcoin less in the category of innovation. He thinks it is the output of a system that expanded money supply faster than it preserved purchasing power.
“If [the government] had done what they were supposed to do and were responsible, bitcoin would not be where it is today,” Hayes said. “If you don't print money, there's no need for bitcoin.”
Hayes’ assessment aligns with how bitcoin has behaved over time: its value has risen in periods of monetary expansion, and struggled when liquidity tightened. The underlying bet is on the persistence of that macro environment, both Hayes and Matt Luongo, co-founder of Mezo, said on the podcast.
Still, today, bitcoin’s role is less about macro hedging and more about behavioral change, Luongo said. “It isn’t get-rich-quick tech; it’s good savings technology.”
Given that bitcoin has only been around for about 15 years, Hayes thinks it should still be considered a “social experiment.”
That framing matters in a market where participation has broadened as institutional products, ETFs, and advisory channels bring in new buyers who may not share the same time horizons or risk tolerance as early adopters.
For some, that means trying to anticipate policy shifts, liquidity cycles, and market inflection points. For others, like Hayes and Luongo, it means accepting imperfect timing.
As bitcoin’s reach has grown, so has the push to make it more “productive.” So far, that push has been focused around the idea of generating yield, whether through lending, structured products, or new protocols.
For example, a few months ago Mezo launched its Mezo Earn product, which allows bitcoin holders to earn yield on their BTC.
At a structural level, bitcoin differs from other crypto assets as it does not generate yield natively. Any return must come from financial activity layered on top, whether that’s borrowing, lending, or a derivative.
This also changes how the asset is used. Rather than trading bitcoin, many investors are increasingly focused on maintaining exposure while finding ways to access liquidity.
A key constraint in this evolution is the diversity of participants, Luongo noted. Retail investors, crypto-native funds, and institutions all approach bitcoin differently, particularly when it comes to risk and infrastructure.
Luongo notes that much of the current work in the space is about adapting to those differences. “A lot of our work really has been focusing on going to meet them where their risk is, rather than demanding that they come to us.”
This is especially relevant for larger allocators, who face regulatory and auditing constraints that limit how they can deploy capital. It also helps explain why some of the more experimental areas of crypto have struggled to attract institutional participation.
At its core, both Hayes and Luongo’s thesis on bitcoin depends on continued monetary expansion, persistent demand for alternative stores of value, and a growing willingness to treat bitcoin as financial infrastructure, not just as an asset.
Check out the next section for more details and the full episode.
The latest Talking Tokens podcast 🎙️
For today’s episode, I interviewed Matt Luongo, co-founder of Mezo, and Arthur Hayes, CIO of Maelstrom and co-founder of BitMEX, about why they see bitcoin as the best collateral ever created and what it means to build a financial system on top of it. Matt explains how Mezo is rebuilding banking on bitcoin by letting holders borrow against their BTC rather than spend it, and why the lending market that blew up last cycle is now being rebuilt onchain with better infrastructure. Arthur shares why he treats bitcoin purely as a liquidity barometer, why governments will always choose to print rather than accept consequences, and why that makes bitcoin the only rational long-term savings asset.
The two walk through what sustainable bitcoin yield actually looks like versus the token-printing schemes that failed in the last cycle and how institutions holding bitcoin on their balance sheet are deploying it. The conversation also covers Arthur's personal philosophy on leverage, Matt's experience financing his house with bitcoin, and why both guests believe people shouldn’t sell your BTC, just borrow against it.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 – Intro
01:37 – Why Matt built Mezo and what drew Arthur in with his big picture thesis
02:23 – Arthur on Maelstrom, his family office, and why bitcoin needs to be useful
03:16 – The state of bitcoin in 2026
05:57 – Bitcoin as a liquidity alarm: why it rises and falls with global money printing
08:47 – Governments choosing bailouts over consequences, and how bitcoin can win
15:04 – How to think about risk before going max long bitcoin
20:39 – What macro patterns Arthur and Matt actually track
23:41 – What sustainable bitcoin yield looks like versus token-printing schemes
25:24 – Why a lot of bitcoin holders have never had access to standard DeFi
32:36 – How institutions with BTC on their balance sheet are thinking about yield today
34:26 – Why every DeFi exploit sets institutional adoption back and what changes that
37:03 – Bitcoin as collateral: what it actually unlocks for holders
38:25 – How Matt and Arthur each got into crypto
44:41 – Is it too late to buy bitcoin? The conversations people are actually having now
45:55 – Market outlook and price predictions
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Money and people moves
Former CFTC Chairman Chris Giancarlo retires from law practice to focus on strategic roles
Coinbase VP of international policy leaves for OpenAI (CoinDesk)
Deutsche Börse Acquires Kraken Stake in $200M Deal (Decrypt)
US Justice Department opens claims for victims of $4 billion OneCoin fraud (The Block)
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Please note this content is for informational and educational purposes only. Any views shared should not be considered financial advice, nor should it be used to make investment decisions. Cryptocurrencies are high risk and you should consult a financial professional before making any financial decisions. Make sure you do your own research. We may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this newsletter.